By Susan Medak, Talmadge

I agree with "Watcher." Although, the good folks of SD decided that we will have Jerry Sanders for the next four years. So, Jerry Sanders is the people's choice. However, I still don't see the REFORM in the Jerry Sanders-Bob Kittle reform agenda. Treading water for the successors isn't reform, it is "deny, delay, and deceive." Sanders promised that he could solve the city's financial challenges without raising taxes. He said that numerous times before and after his initial election. Well, Mr. Sanders, have at it---we've been waiting for that promised performance. Please keep your election promise.

Posted by Dale Peterson | reply to this comment
November 17, 2008 1:38 pm

I don't believe citizens realize what it will be like to shutter recreation centers and parks for 5 years. "Temporary" in City Speak is much longer than the usual defintion. Mayor Sanders has not revealed his staff, job descriptions, and salaries despite a FOIA request. I suspect that he has many staffers who earn over $100,000 per year. Why can't some of these unclassified employees take pay cuts ? Or job share ? The non answers from these same folks at Wed budget hearings makes me suspicious. Especailly when Ms. Lewis defines temporary as 5 years. The only answer is reorganization under bankruptcy. Andrea Tevlin seems like the most honest, intelligent one in the crowd. Now we know what "a good old boy" like Sanders can do to the City when he puts his mind to it.

Posted by s mournian | reply to this comment
November 14, 2008 3:51 pm

s - Why don't you look at the fy09 budget which is online at the city's website for jobs and salaries throughout the city. you don't need a Public Records Act for info that is plainly available on line.

Posted by bevo | reply to this comment
November 14, 2008 6:47 pm

I want the base salary figures plus the amount of the package when healthcare is added. This information has not been provided in any public document. If you have those figures, please share them.

Posted by smournian | reply to this comment
November 17, 2008 7:43 am

Mayor Sanders has done very little when it comes to trimming his staff. Didn't he just hire The Anti-Union Tribune's Gerry Braun to silence him up? That was a newly created $141,000 position? I guess there's a budget crisis for some but not all. Isn't Gerry Braun the guy that wrote an article last year about Jerry Sanders being Susan Golding in drag? How soon we forget. I wish I were a better lawyer. Most city employees work hard for their entire career. Maybe the city should give the employees that are in the pension system an opportunity to take ownership of the Torrey Pines Golf Course or maybe the Fairbanks Ranch Country Club instead of their pension. Bankruptcy? Sounds like a great idea.....there's a lot to liquidate. Let's get it on! Well,.I'm in need of taking my meds now. I need my Prozac & Ridilin to mellow me out!

Posted by Billy Bob Henry | reply to this comment
November 14, 2008 7:12 pm

LOL.....you're not fooling anyone poser. But thanks for the flattery! BTW-NO REAL PROPERTY is sold- or dosposed of - in a Chapter 9 Bankruptcy. it is strictly a cash/flow BK, all City/Gov. property is immune from creditors. Sorry, but that gravy train is about to derail-Vallejo style.

Posted by Billy Bob Henry | reply to this comment
November 17, 2008 2:39 pm

Bankruptcy doesnt change anything. We have been donwn this road before. It didn't work for Orange county and it won't relieve San Diego of its obligated pension commitments, and its costly. What is with the national fervor to not pay your debts? AIG, Banks, Auto industry, Wall Street? If San Diego attempts to follow suit, why should I have to pay my debts? I voluntarily incurred debt for cars, credit cards, homes and I havent missed any debt payment in 30 years of adulthood. San Diego voluntarily incurred its debts also. Why should I be forced to pay property taxes, my water bill, etc to an entity that doesn't have to pay its voluntarily incurred debts?

Posted by Gene | reply to this comment
November 15, 2008 5:19 am

Typical 'ends,' predicted by Scottish history Professor of Civilizations at graduation in 1787: "A Democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only Exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves money from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority alsways votes for the candidates promising the most money form the public treasury, with the result that a democracy Always Collapses over Loose Fiscal Policy, always Followed by Dictatorship." Thomas MaCaulay (famous author) stated it differently: "Your Republic will be fearfully plundered and laid waste by Barbarians in the twentieth (21st) century, with this difference: The Huns and Vandals who ransacked Rome were from without, and your Huns and Vandals will come from within your Own Country, and be Engendered from Within by Your Own Institutions." Sad-U.S./San Diego repeating obvious 'mistakes.'

Posted by Wide Awake | reply to this comment
November 18, 2008 9:41 am

I do not believe the City can file bankruptsy. It has too many assets. Even reorganization would be difficult. The citizens need to realize if they want cadillac services then they have to pay for them. BBH and Edgar, don't work yourself up with that comment. This City has always looked out for the citizens. They pay their cops less than virtually any other city in Ca. The tax rate is les than other municipalitiess. Who benifits? The citizens. Now it is time for payback. Yes the police department will take more cutbacks,amd so will the FD and other city departments/employee Lets be realistic. Everyone should shoulder some of the burden; Even you Edgar and Henry!

Posted by Ron Weiss | reply to this comment
November 15, 2008 8:05 am

I don't know about BBH, but I shoulder plenty of the burden, thank you very much indeed. Maybe if you want to move into the city from the sticks, you could chime in with your one and a half cent's worth of commentary, but right now, it is the citizens of the city of San Diego who are financially responsible for San Diego. Not people out in the sticks. In reality, though, you and your police and fire brethren are always telling us how great things are in the OC and how you all are going to leave us stinking SD cheapskates who refuse to pay a living wage to move there and, and, blah, blah, blah. Please, be our guest. One other recommendation: SPELL CHECK or at least learn how to spell bankruptcy. All the others we'll just chalk up to typos.

Posted by Edgar | reply to this comment
November 17, 2008 10:09 am

Thanks Edgar for the kind words and also for critiqueing my post in grammar and spelling! My point was Sanders has lied to the citizens. This City will not survive just on cutbacks. All of you, including Sanders expect Cadillac services but do not want to pay for them. San Diego's Citizens (Edgar, and BBH) lack of support for the services this expensive City MUST have to keep the crime rate down, and protect them from environmental and natural disasters leads me to believe they should be the ones to MOVE OUT just like those that already have. The whining is deafening. Paying a higher tax rate will solve this issue. It is time all of you realize that is the only solution; not bankruptcy. Open your Eyes Edgar! I moved out of S.D.because I cannot afford to live here. Maybe you should too!

Posted by Ron Weiss | reply to this comment
November 18, 2008 8:10 am

I can afford to live in San Diego just fine, Officer Weiss. It's just that I don't like to be mugged by my own city any more than by some thug in a parking structure at Fashion Valley while doing Christmas shopping. It's so un-municipal. Know what I mean?

Posted by Edgar | reply to this comment
November 18, 2008 10:49 am

If you feel "mugged" Edgar, it is not by the City employees. The Citizens,(including me) elected the officials that really were the cause of some of the financial problems this City has. Poor choices with huge price tags is this citys nemesis, and of course your blathering isn't helping when you have those that just read these posts and don't spend the time to educate themselves!

Posted by Ron Weiss | reply to this comment
November 18, 2008 1:29 pm

For all the contrarian, union-propagandizing dribble you are responsible for in these comments, your one statement in this last comment was indeed very insightful and maybe (I said maybe) worthy of forgiving you all the other twaddle. That was: "Poor choices with huge price tags is (sic) this city's nemesis." Right on Officer Ron Weiss. You should be promoted to Chief of Police forthwith. Your insight is correct and, while I personally feel that the night janitor at police headquarters could do a better job as chief of Police than the incumbent, why not go for the best? I'm serious. You're correct. It is what I have been saying all along. The numbskulls in city government (i.e., just about everybody at the top, including the City Clowncil) should all be replaced and I think you would do a good job. Just be advised there is no money for pensions.

Posted by Edgar | reply to this comment
November 18, 2008 5:49 pm

I don't "feel" mugged by city government. I AM being mugged. Just today two more separate raises for water. The clowns on the Clowncil all came running out of their tiny little car just long enough to pass the raises and then scurry back in and drive off. Once they discovered WATER as the never-ending source of moolah, why, yes! It is felony mugging most grievious. At this rate, we should have two increases a month until every household is paying at least $1,000.00 a month for the privilege of using indoor plumbing. The clowns have no concept of the reality of money -- either because they married into unlimited funds or they see other people's money as free. Maybe we should all, as a gathering of city taxpayers in protest, go over to Peters's Hanging Gardens of Babylon and pee there, instead of paying to use our toilets.

Posted by Edgar | reply to this comment
November 18, 2008 6:01 pm

Sorry Charlie-"assets" have NO bearing on a Chapter 9 BK-it is strictly cash/flow. Gravy train is ending.

Posted by Billy Bob Henry | reply to this comment
November 17, 2008 2:42 pm

Sorry Ron, but I for one do not want to pay Cadillac wages and benefits for Yugo City employees with GED's and HS diplomas.

Posted by Billy Bob Henry | reply to this comment
November 17, 2008 2:44 pm

BBH, you are like a broken record; AGAIN. In case you haven’t noticed, the entire global market is in a recession. How long that recession lasts is anyone’s guess but if you think a snap decision such as bankruptcy is the answer, then go ahead and do a personal one first and let us all know how that works out. I am sure the balance in your 401k or whatever else you have invested is down from a year or so ago. So you first. Oh, and by the way, since you like to constantly rail on HS diplomas and GEDs as the minimum requirements for cops, can you please remind us what the minimum formal educational requirements are to become a lawyer in California is? HS diploma or GED.

Posted by SDCrimefighter | reply to this comment
November 21, 2008 10:19 am

Try becoming a lawyer without having graduated from an accredited law school. The days of Lincoln studying by the light of his fireplace are long since past no matter what the requirements specify. The same is not true to become a police officer.

Posted by Edgar | reply to this comment
November 23, 2008 10:37 pm

Wake up Ron! What 'too many assets' are left besides public buildings, already highly 'collateralized' by foreign banks with 'redevelopment bonds?' Since you 'left town,' Wear, Zucchet, Faulconer, Planning Commission 'affiliates in the industry,' etc. have been 'giving away' every 'city-owned asset' they could since Wear's tenure, maybe before! Dead-end paper 'streets', Public utility 'Right of Ways,' all for 'lucrative spec homes' for their buddy developers...includi in 'redevelopment areas,' sucking up the Property Taxes from State & Local Coffers through 'Redevelopment!' Smell the stench as SD goes into massive decline. Increased crime with teens rampant on the streets, educational programs stressed to the hilt, dropouts are sure to follow.

Posted by Wide Awake | reply to this comment
November 18, 2008 9:51 am

remember, the everyday city employee had nothing to do with this. Instead to a pay raise this is what the workers were presented, remember allthe 'last and final offers' that you use to hear about. This time the employee accepted the cities offer through the proper legal pay neg. The problem is the CITY FAILED TO PAY, JUST LIKE AS IF YOU DID NOT PAY YOUR WATER BILL. THEY USED THE MONEY TO BUILD THE STADIUM FOR THE PADRES, BUILD A CONVENTION CENTER TO HOST THE GOP. CHANGES TO THE STADIUM FOR THE CHARGERS. In Chicago, Jimmy Hoffa and others went to jail over the teamsters pension scandal, go after the mayors, councils and those responsible, yes, city managers, Padres, Chargers ballclubs, not the employees. Don't forget this is all because the City did not live up to thecontract

Posted by been there | reply to this comment
November 15, 2008 9:28 am

Mayor Sanders and the Unions will not talk about Bankruptcy until they sell every public asset and put all the public funds into the pension debts not voted on by the taxpayers as required by law. By allowing the oversize Sunroad tower, City employees tried to shut down Montgomery Field in order to sell the City-owned land and build luxury condos. The City already gave the pension plan the publically owned Sports Arena property as collateral. However, the Sports Arena is on reclaimed tidelands like Mission and San Diego Bay and is actually owned by the people of the State of California. link On Page 4 of the City Charter Section 221-Sale of Real Property says that the City cannot sell off large swatches of public land more than 80_acres without a_vote by_the public. When they try to sell our closed_libaries and_parks , we_will be_watching.

Posted by La Playa Heritage | reply to this comment
November 15, 2008 1:48 pm

Wow...there are so may problems with your post I don't know where to start. There is no evidence that the City tried to shut down Montgomery Field. If you recall, the building was too tall, yet the FAA did not even attempt to shut it down. The City did not give the pension fund any land. It pledged it as collateral. Big difference. The Sports Arena properties were granted to the City by the Federal government after the war. It was military housing. You are correct on the 80 acres. Score one for you! However, all sales of land go into the Capital Outlay Program, not pension debt, not the general fund, not anyone's pocket. Someone was using their head when putting that in the muni code. No fire sales of City land!

Posted by Ann | reply to this comment
November 16, 2008 10:07 pm

A simple analysis of San Diego's tax structure shows San Diegan's pay lower taxes than their counterparts throughout California. The so-called trash-tax is but one example. Developer fees are low when comparing them to other communities outside San Diego County. Cost recovery programs are a joke. Meanwhile, San Diegans and those who come to our city want services for free or next to nothing. When our political leaders FINALLY grow a backbone, and muster the courage to ask for tax increases to pay for them, San Diegans say NO! As evidenced by the recent fire protection tax failure for our entire county and raising the "hotel" or TO Tax on visitors.) And that was before the City's revenue sources dried up. So if you're not willing to pay, then something has to go, it's just that simple.

Posted by JustWondering | reply to this comment
November 16, 2008 9:45 am

Citizens getting a reality check and realizing they really have to pay for services, and not voting in bobble heads for Council would really help. We get the Council we deserve when we vote into second terms the inadequate and the unconscious and the greedy, and then vote in replacements that are no improvement over the past council members. While the public looks for someone to blame, they might think about how their own cheapness, greed and lack of ability to think ahead is part of the problem. We sometimes vote by knee jerk reactions instead of looking at the big picture, and then whine about the results. The Mayor and Council is just a microcosm of the public...unrealistic wanting "free" services, and pretending the time to pay the bill will never come. Well, it just may have...not just for San Diego, but for the country.

Posted by Leanne1 | reply to this comment
November 17, 2008 8:06 am

Citizens getting a reality check and realizing they really have to pay for services, and not voting in bobble heads for Council would really help. We get the Council we deserve when we vote into second terms the inadequate and the unconscious and the greedy, and then vote in replacements that are no improvement over the past council members. While the public looks for someone to blame, they might think about how their own cheapness, greed and lack of ability to think ahead is part of the problem. We sometimes vote by knee jerk reactions instead of looking at the big picture, and then whine about the results. The Mayor and Council is just a microcosm of the public...unrealistic wanting "free" services, and pretending the time to pay the bill will never come. Well, it just may have...not just for San Diego, but for the country.

Posted by Leanne1 | reply to this comment
November 17, 2008 8:06 am

CA is the most overtaxed state in the union. We need to stop paying Cadillac wages for Yugo employees.

Posted by Billy Bob Henry | reply to this comment
November 17, 2008 2:46 pm

California is also a very expensive place to live. You can't expect to pay Montana taxes when you are living in a place with soaring costs. Libraries, recreation centers, fire and police are not free...there is a cost, direct or indirect to running them. And people who yip about the cost must not pay their own bills or they would realize the price of running a facility is enormous. Utilities, water, supplies, materials (for the libraries), maintenance, equipment...these all have a price tag. And, yes, a living wage for the employees who are not serfs but actual people. I agree the pension situation got out of hand...but I didn't vote for the idiots who made the decisions, and I am angry that the fools who made the decisions keep get rewarded with re-elections and plush assignments. The voters have something to do with that.

Posted by Leanne1 | reply to this comment
November 18, 2008 6:28 am

Your "yugo" comment is pretty silly Henry, It really isn't even the slightest bit funny. Actualy your Yugo mentality about who is responsible for the status of this Citys economy is funny. Between you and Edgar, both of you want to throw blame on the City employees, when it was theCitizens that elected the officials that Offered the SPD,SDFD and MEA the contracts, which will not and cannot be taken away. A tax increase is the only logical solution. Not Bankruptcy. Again I say, quit whining, quit begging. Aguirre is gone. An adult will be moving int the C.A. position, and in time our City will recover just like the rest of the Country. I just hope the Citizens that feel as you do, start educating themselves about the issues. Your bone head ideas are baseless and really have only an entertainment vallue!

Posted by Ron Weiss | reply to this comment
November 18, 2008 1:15 pm

Just keep saying that when your pesnion goes bye bye. Like I said, the gravy train for public employees is OVER. You're getting a hair cut in pay and pensions and that is a certainty. The pay and benefits at PD/FD are 20 times what they would be in the private sector. OC is on the verge of BK, San Diego is, and so is Chula Vista-remember them, they were the "highest paid cops" in the County as you constanl;ty reminded us here at VoSD-and I said they woul eventually be filing BK just like San Diego and now that has become a reality. BK is coming and there is no stopping it now. You cannot pay 20% of the employed population who work for the government 10-20 times more than everyone in the private sector.

Posted by Billy Bob Henry | reply to this comment
November 18, 2008 5:05 pm

The Bottom Line Solutions for San Diego's Budget Crisis: A Comparative Analysis of California's Largest Cities ~ April 2005 link see - research publications

Posted by Zotz | reply to this comment
November 16, 2008 8:57 pm

So I'm just wondering, after reading the excutive summary, ( link ) why the City has chosen not to implement some, if not all, of these suggestions? This isn't rocket science folks, and no ones suggests this is ripping off taxpayers by asking for the average of California's ten largest cities... It just takes will power and leadership to convince San Diegans if they want a certain level of service they need to pay for it.

Posted by JustWondering | reply to this comment
November 18, 2008 7:15 am

You pay for all this crap, JustWondering. The rest of us have had it supporting city employees with above-grade pay and luxurious pensions. The city of San Diego needs to get back into the business of being a city -- i.e., provide the services and regulation that a municipality is meant to provide. Get out of the business of being Uncle Sam, Jr. Entitlement programs dreamed up by the Clowncil are killing the city and its taxpayers. This is why you will NEVER get another major tax scheme approved by the citizens of this city, when money is hemorrhaging out the back. Break the habit of tax and spend and you will put the city back on track. Unfortunately the clowns on the Clowncil neither understand nor care about the cause of our city's financial woes.

Posted by Edgar | reply to this comment
November 18, 2008 10:52 pm

When is CPI going to acknowledge that for 25+ yrs., CCDC, SEDC, etc. have all been 'sucking dry' the Local AND State Public Revenues...all going to fund Private Billionaire or Multi-Millionaire Industries? What used to be a 'managed city,' has faced continuous 'cuts' to discontinue 'replacement reserves' and 'divert public funds to the private sector.' The private sector's 'business administration,' has 'tooled' the public administration too much, now 'changing existing laws' and 'codes' to prepare for massive Density with NO INFRASTRUCTURE improvements...until it's too 'costly' to afford! Go to the old 'management methods' to look how easy it is to restore. Cut the consultants, high paid attorneys & follow the LAWS and former Municipal Codes for, ie. "Planning & Review Dept.' instead of 'Develop(er) Services Dept.' that do nothing for the 'public good,' except their maintain OWN existence! Real Estate's 'cycles' have been ignored.

Posted by Wide Awake | reply to this comment
November 18, 2008 10:08 am

This mayor and city council have done nothing to stem the growing pension deficit over the last 5 years. On their watch, the city's pension debt has more than doubled. While the problem festers, all we get is double talk and photo ops from the mayor and the city council members have only focused on pork barrel projects for their own districts. Replacing three of the council members is just a start. Now let's get rid of Jerry Sanders and the remaining council members unless they get off their butts and do something real about the city's financial mess, instead of just stalling in order to pass it off to their successors.

Posted by Watcher | reply to this comment
November 17, 2008 11:20 am

Editor´s Choice
I agree with "Watcher." Although, the good folks of SD decided that we will have Jerry Sanders for the next four years. So, Jerry Sanders is the people's choice. However, I still don't see the REFORM in the Jerry Sanders-Bob Kittle reform agenda. Treading water for the successors isn't reform, it is "deny, delay, and deceive." Sanders promised that he could solve the city's financial challenges without raising taxes. He said that numerous times before and after his initial election. Well, Mr. Sanders, have at it---we've been waiting for that promised performance. Please keep your election promise.

Posted by Dale Peterson | reply to this comment
November 17, 2008 1:38 pm

If it were a publicly traded corporation, the City of San Diego would have already been forced to file for chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. Clearly, its liabilities far exceed its assets (year after year). It has not been able to demonstrate a sustained ability to turn this around and stay in the black. A receiver would have removed the incompetent board (city council) and most high level managers. It would have been put on a tightly controlled budget and a debt repayment schedule. Additionally, organizational consultants would have been retained to assist in the restructuring of the entire institution. However, combined with purile leadership, the pension laws and labor unions have thrown a monkey wrench into the works, thereby allowing further mismanagement and increasing debt with no end in sight. Only a complete and utter reinvention or reorganization will yield fruitful, lasting results.

Posted by NativeVoice | reply to this comment
November 17, 2008 1:53 pm

So, when will the public, residents & businesses get smart & get rid of our 'pretty-faced mayor' and his greedy council members, planning commissioners & planners? Is a Recall too much to ask?

Posted by cmdrdecker | reply to this comment
November 18, 2008 10:21 am

Leeanne, My father 'ran' much of the City as Asst. City Mgr. What 'business' administrators Don't Understand is that the funding of "Libraries, recreation centers, fire and police are not free...." That's "Public Administration." BUT YOU must Realize, MOST of the Properties in Redevelopment Areas are NOT "paying their own bills" for 'their share' of these costs! You & I, NOT LIVING IN 'Redevelopment Areas' are PAYING FOR THEIR "SHARE" of "PUBLIC FACILITIES, PARKS, Recreation Centers and PUBLIC SERVICES, etc.! UNTIL 'Diversion of Redevelopment Area Property Taxes' are treated only as a 'kick-starter' for 'upgrading true blighted areas,' we are ALL being DENIED ACCESS to these Newly-Created Property Tax REVENUES! Our Cities Crumble, while 'Redevelopment Bond Holders' ream in High Interest Rates, Redevelopers gouge us from benefits of 'low-cost bond financing' and free or low cost properties to 'redevelop'! End Redevelopment!

Posted by Wide Awake | reply to this comment
November 19, 2008 8:36 am

"Coming up: A huge pension bailout?" link Raiding and spending of all the contributions American workers have made to the Social Security Trust Fund. All pensions appear to be all unfunded or grossly under funded. In the early 1980’s it became 'no long necessary' for corporations to have funding levels @100% in pension accounts – a rash of predatory take-overs took place - powerful groups took over Pension rich and Capital Rich companies and raided pension accounts while decapitalizing the companies selling-off the most profitable bits and pieces of their victims. A handful of us warned and kept warning - that removing the self-building equity from worker pension accounts would eventually crush the corporat/gov systems under unsustainable levels of debt responsibility; we were told by the powerful real “economist” that we were being "unrealistic" because 'growth is constant.' Wrong, yet they are still in charge.

Posted by Iknowtodd | reply to this comment
November 26, 2008 10:05 am

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